This time I want to talk about a wonderful opportunity to meet a large number of hot girls. I think it’s one of the easiest places to pick up women – and with a little bit of skill you will have literally no competition.

Most guys go to clubs, only to find a bunch of rejective girls and great competition in the form of other men. But have you ever thought of visiting one of the local dance-schools?

I know, I know… Now you will come with the typical excuse: you are not a “very good” dancer. But think a bit! If everyone was a good dancer, such schools wouldn’t exist! There are also a large number of dances to choose from: I’m sure you can find one that you will like.

Just take my example: to be honest, I was never a good dancer. I have never done any competitive sports and when I was younger I wasn’t the best in gymnastics. But still, I have decided to go for it and tried salsa dancing. And boy, just what I found! A great number of beautiful, single women eager for my attention!

Apart from dance classes, most of the dance schools organize their own parties. Meeting girls at these parties is a piece of cake: you don’t need to know lame pick-up lines or fancy ways of approaching women. All you need is to ask her for a dance and the rest will flow naturally.

After dancing, just grab the hand of the girl and ask if she wants to talk a bit. If you know to dance just a little bit, she will be already attracted to you and ready to go further. Believe me, guys who know how to move are VERY ATTRACTIVE to women! Since there are also a lot of girls who are just interested and don’t even know how to dance, you can go far with only a little bit of skill. That is not hard to get by taking dancing lessons for 3-4 months.

And the party is not over yet. Most of these girls are not only single, but also very intelligent and know how to move their bodies. Read: they are damn good in bed! If you are interested, I suggest you do a search on the Internet for local dance schools. Visit a few of them then decide which is the best. I suggest you check out either Salsa or Standard Latin dance-schools.

Finally, if you are looking for more tips and ideas on improving your success with women, check out my e-book called “All About Women: The Encyclopaedia Of Seduction”. It covers each step of the seduction process, from the way women think to learning the attitude which attracts women, approaching women (and getting over the anxiety), and also improving the effectiveness of your dating and enchaining your sexual life. Whether you are ugly, bald, young, old or broke, the techniques I teach will work for you like a charm!

Giuseppe Notte (All About Women: The Encyclopaedia Of Seduction)

The other day I was talking to a buddy of mine, a real rock star at attracting women, about, of all things, Bill Gates. We were discussing how Gates’ financial problems are vastly different from the average person. Bill spends his days fretting over ways to either make more money or sustain the money he has, while most people concern themselves with making money in the first place. The man lives in a completely different reality from most of us. As we were chatting about Mr. Microsoft, something dawned on us…

When it comes to succeeding with women, we realized, we live in a very different reality from most men. In our reality, generating attraction in women is as easy as taking a crap – little effort, yet feels great! The skills and tools for generating attraction are so ingrained in us that when interacting with gorgeous women, there’s not even an iota of hemming and hawing over how to attract them. Our focus, instead, is on: using the attraction we already know we can generate in them to get our intended outcome. If there’s a woman we’re interested in, for example, we don’t stand there stiff and stupefied, like a deer caught in headlights, wondering: “How in the world are we going to attract her?” We know, if we just chat with her for a few minutes, it’s inevitable that she’ll feel attraction toward us. That’s why our focus is entirely on, even if we haven’t yet said a word to her, using the attraction we already know we can generate in her to get our intended outcome.

But this isn’t the reality of most men. “What to do in the wake of a woman feeling attraction toward you?” is a thought never crossing the minds of many a man – and rightfully so…because most can’t even generate attraction inside women in the first place.

A few nights ago, for example, I was at a little bar down the street from my house. My friend and I watched a forty-something year-old distinguished looking business man play the big passive bottom to the verbal gang bang of two twenty-one year old looking, sponge-brained rhymes-with-witches. The poor bastard attempted to attract these women the only ways he knew how: buying them drinks, giving them lots of compliments, and, worst of all, asking them if they thought his clothes are cool. Funny enough, the more he did these things, the crueller the girls acted toward him. This man was a walking, talking attraction death sentence.

Can you relate? Have you ever felt, every attempt to attract a woman was actually turning her off? Or have you experienced the frustration of trying to figure out why a woman was more attracted to your friend than you? Or maybe you’ve brooded: Attracting women is as difficult as a blind man trying to find a bobby pin on an open football field. I dunno?

Each scenario represents the reality of not knowing how to attract women. A reality I personally overstayed my welcome. I, however, have moved far away from this reality and now reside in a place where attracting women is cake.

I’m going to share something with you only known, for the most part, by people living in a reality where attracting women is as easy as turning on a light switch. This is something I don’t think I’ve ever talked about in a newsletter…and might never again. If you’ve read my book, you’ll know what this is. If you’ve gone out and experimented with it, there’s a good chance you understand the power behind it.

Before I get into this I’m going to review some attraction basics.

Realize this: Most women march through life to the rhythms of some drum most men will never hear. My job is to get you to hear those rhythms, so, you can start experiencing massive success with women. Attraction is neither how a woman judges you nor what she prefers. Women prefer men who are tall and dark and lumbered with boa constrictor sized wieners. Think of the guys featured in Calvin Klein, Guess, and Abercrombie catalogues. That’s what women prefer! This probably isn’t you, and certainly isn’t me. But that’s okay…because…the men women prefer and the men they feel attraction for are as similar as apples are to oranges. Attraction has very little to with preference. Attraction, instead, is the emotion of a woman wanting and reaching and chasing for more of a man.

This is why you hear many a woman talking about her experiences of feeling attraction toward men whom she finds ugly or as not filling the quota for what she considers to be her type. When you’ve mastered the mechanisms behind generating attraction, what a woman physically thinks of you will be the least of your concerns.

One of the most effective ways I’ve found for generating massive amounts of attraction in women, emotionally compelling them to want and reach and chase for more of you, is what I call “Tension Loops.” The best part of using Tension Loops is that they generate heaps of attraction in women…regardless of your current looks, social status, or bank account.

A Tension Loop is when you do something to create unresolved emotional tension inside a woman, increase it, release it by bringing closure to it, and then spark it all over again. This will keep her feeling the emotion of wanting and reaching and chasing for more of you.

Soap opera writers use Tension Loops to keep women enraptured in their fictitious dramas for months – sometimes years! The structure is always the same. The soap starts off with some form of conflict or drama, sparking unresolved emotional tension. Emotional tension increases up until the point of the climax. The tension, then, is released by bringing some resolution to the conflict or drama. And, finally, the show ends by sparking the tension all over again, compelling women to tune in for next week’s show.

Mastering the Tension Loop will give you the kind of power over women that, at first, might scare you. But if you’re thinking that this is what I wanted to share with you, you’re wrong.

So keep reading…

In a minute, you’re going to learn a special type of Tension Loop I call “Push/Pull.” If you aren’t comfortable with the idea of having the power to generate attraction inside the women you desire, regardless of what they think of you, you might want to stop reading now!

What I’m about to reveal is Jedi mind *shit*. We’re talking Yoda power! And you don’t have to become Darth Vader to reap the benefits of Push/Pull. Every guy I’ve come into contact with, who is good with women, uses some form of Push/Pull.

Push/Pull is whenever you emotionally push a woman away from you…and, then, emotionally pull her back in. Each Push creates an emotional space for each Pull. To get a sense of what I’m getting at, think, for example, of your favourite junk food. What if you went on a strict diet for several weeks, depriving yourself of giving in to your urge to eat your favourite food? What would it be like to finally give in to your urge and indulge? I’m willing to bet it would be more intense than if you hadn’t gone on your strict diet, yes?

Many women are natural Push/Pull artists. Over the years I’ve heard dozens of stories from hapless men about women using Push/Pull to pick them up by the scruff of their proverbial neck, slamming their bodies with back-and-forth and side-to-side motions into the ground. My all time favourite story is the one about the gorgeous girl sleeping with a guy and then, after sex, putting his ego on steroids by telling him, “You’re the best lover I’ve ever had.” Things, then, alas, take a self-esteem crushing turn for the worse when she undermines her praise with: “Actually, you’re the fourth best lover I’ve ever had.” The poor bastard is crushed and he is, as if he were a little worker bee, struggling to move up to the number three slot.

We can use these psychological mechanisms without being an A-hole or a Jerk. The key is to make it playful and funny. Your intention should never be to hurt a woman. Your goal is to only mess with her a bit. Do this and women will find you charming and attractive.

Here’s an example of Push/Pull I’ve used probably over a thousand times…

At some point while interacting with a woman I might take her hand and praise, “You have the most amazing smile I’ve seen tonight…It makes me feel so happy inside!” She’ll usually respond with, “Thank you!” Then I’ll count the fingers on my other hand and say, “You know what: actually there were four other girls with really amazing smiles tonight as well. Out of them, you have the fourth best smile. I’m going to call you number four.” And then I’ll push away her hand. More often than not, women demand, “No!!! I want to be number one!” I’ll usually retort with, “Alright, I’ll promote you to number three for being feisty.”

Do women find this derisive and mean? Not at all (Note: once in while you’ll encounter a psychologically damaged woman who doesn’t think this is cute. She is the exception and not the rule. My advice: run away from these types of women, quickly). Most women find this funny, charming, and playful. More importantly, it generates attraction: the emotion of wanting and reaching and chasing for more of you.

Push/Pull is the crème de la crème of attraction tools. Master Push/Pull and you’ll leave women no choice but to feel attraction toward you…even if they’re repulsed by your physical appearance. Realize that I’m only scratching the surface of Push/Pull. In my book, you’ll learn six types of Push/Pull: Intentional Undermining, Guilty Conscience, Emotional Rollercoaster, Revealing & Concealing, and Good Cop/ Bad Cop. You’ll discover body language techniques for using Push/Pull and read about a powerful Push/Pull secret for getting physical with a woman…even if she tells you, she’s not attracted to you. My book is the only place on the planet where you’ll learn about Push/Pull. This, however, only scratches the surface of what you’ll gain from my attraction guide. It’s a complete education on attracting women, giving you the tools to transform yourself into the kind of man women feel attraction toward. Just think what it will be like to finally have the skills and confidence to plop your butt in the driver’s seat while interacting with women, giving you the power and choice to take your interactions with them in the direction you want. Start getting this area of your life taken care of right now by downloading my book.

Swinggcat

Mystery calls this MOMENTUM.

Our state DRASTICALLY affects our ability to pickup girls. They pickup on it.

When I’m in a good state, I can perform at elite levels. On some *rare* occassions I’ve seen my game run even as tight as Mystery’s.

I’ll feel great, practically invincible. Cocky as ever, I feel like I can pickup any chick in the club – and I CAN.

I CAN THINK OF ALL THE *RIGHT* THINGS TO SAY. ROUTINES AND LINES ARE FLOWING OUT OF MY MOUTH EFFORTLESSLY. I AM FUNNY, SHARP, COCKY, AND ITS ALL EFFORTLESS. I AM *ON*.

Other nights, I cannot initiate a chat to save my life. SERIOUSLY, I CANNOT INITIATE A CHAT. No exaggeration. I’ll try, but I’ll be snubbed over and over.

Literally, no exaggeration. I get sub-AFC. This happens to me at least one out of every 5-6 times that I’ll go out.

——

So what causes this???

It has to do with how ALPHA you feel at the time, and the BIOFEEDBACK that you get as a result.

WHEN YOUR WING’S GAME BREAKS DOWN – PROCEDURES:

In the past, when my wingman’s game had broken down, I’d stop and start running strategy and criticism on why it has occured. Try to get to the bottom of it, etc etc.

This has NEVER been helpful, and has always just made things WORSE. It never got good results.

What I’ve figured out now, is that GIVING ADVICE is OUT-ALPHAING your wingman.

By taking your advice, your wingman is BETA-ing himself.

Doing this in PICKUP is CATEGORICALLY DIFFERENT than in tasks such as academic work, because ALPHA STATE will DICTATE RESULTS.

In academic work, for example, you can take advice from someone, and it will improve your final draft.

However, during pickup, as you take advice, you feel beta-ed, and your results become WORSE and WORSE.

Again – taking advice during ANY other activity is EFFECTIVE, because the advice is HELPFUL.

Because the MERE ACT OF TAKING ADVICE makes you feel beta, it is UNHELPFUL. Therefore you must always AVOID giving advice to your wingman IN FIELD, and SAVE it for a post-game DEBRIEF.

It is my opinion that STRATEGY SHOULD NOT BE DISCUSSED WHILE IN THE MIDST OF PLAYING THE GAME, and should be saved for a post game debrief.

THE SOLUTION:

When your wingman’s game breaks down, the KEY is to AVOID talking about pickup. Realize that the SMALL AMOUNT of strategy that you can discuss will NOT change your wingman’s game enough in such a short period of time to effect substantial change in his game. The SOLUTION is to TAKE A BREATHER, and just go play pool or go outside for a bite to eat or something. JOKE AROUND.
Do NOT address that his night is going poorly. AVOID it.
If he asks why, just say “dude, you’re MONEY.. those chicks were defective anti-social.. do you wanna go find some NORMAL SOCIABLE CHICKS?” and then let HIM direct you back in.

LET YOUR WINGMAN TAKE CHARGE of the situation, so that he can RETURN to alpha-state.

Do NOT start offering advice, or you will BETA his state.

Do NOT tell him about all the chicks you are picking up.

Just joke around, and put him into a situation that will BOOST his state / elevate his testosterone / *whatever*.

**Get him to TAKE CHARGE in a way that is SUBTLE, so he doesn’t know that you are deliberately patronizing him.

If you can prod him to do something that makes him feel alpha, he will return to alpha-state, and again become a helpful and effective wingman.

This is important of course, for 2sets and just because in general, your wingman should be social-proofing you. An ideal pair of wingmen don’t cockfarm eachother out. They BENEFIT and SOCIAL PROOF eachother, because they are BOTH cool guys.

A tactic that helps with this is:

ACCOMPLISHMENT INTRODUCTIONS:

When my wingman comes in, I give him the BEST introduction possible.

“Guys guys! This is Twentysix! This is the COOLEST MUTHAFUCKA on the ENTIRE PLANET.. If you talk to this guy for even 30 seconds, you will clearly see that he is the coolest fucking guy”

Then update him on what you’ve been chatting the chicks about, so he can throw in his 2c.

This also sets the frame that you are more into your wing than the chicks. “Bros before hoes” mentality. Makes you seem cooler and thus more attractive to the set.

———-

Alpha heirarchy bullshit will dictate whether or not you pull the FINEST girls on any given night.

Take for example the parties that I’ll attend. On nights when I am the coolest guy in the room, I have FULL ATTENTION, and I am the ANCHOR of the conversations. (as discussed in the post below this one).

On such a night, I WILL pull the hottest girls, or at very least have all of the attention and IOIs.

However, if a cooler/more alpha guy shows up, I will NOT have good results. I’ll probably go home with nothing, or scraps.

——–

More on wingman tactics:

I’ve noticed that when I have a newbie with me, I’ll usually TAKE CHARGE. I am the man. I go into sets WITHOUT THINKING. I AM ALPHA.

However, when I have an equally skilled PUA with me, I sometimes think more about results. I think too much. Will I get snubbed? Will this work? etc etc…

With a new guy, I don’t have TIME to think about this stuff. I have to TAKE CHARGE of the situation.

I feel ALPHA, and chicks PICKUP on it. I have an excellent night.

Tyler Durden (Real Social Dynamics)

OK, since I’m half asleep at 5am and in a rambly mood, you guys are getting privileged to the REAL way to PU, as opposed to the way that Destin9 suggests.

I am very pissed off at that article (as seen in my comments in the thread below), and I know it will fuck people up, so I’m typing out how to do REAL street approaches. This will be MESSY cause I am dosing in and out of consciousness.

Alright, I’m very tired but I’ll try to sum-up some of the shit from my other posts.. If I sound arrogant or whatever its cause I’m pissed off by reading that Destin9 bullshit, because that Ursula Lidstrom book fucked me up for over 8-months (a book that advocates the exact same thing, although I STILL recommend it on account of its advice on BODY LANGUAGE which is even tighter than GWM, and certain attitudes, although you need to IGNORE the rest of the content)..
—

HOW TO PICKUP:

BODYLANGUAGE:

COLD APPROACHES:

You spot a chick you want. Now the most important thing is how you FACE her.

You roll up, and you don’t face her UNTIL she is facing YOU. That means, if she is turned totally away from you, you literally TURN YOUR NECK ENTIRELY BACKWARDS while you talk, and ONLY turn when she turns.

Then, as she says stuff that she PERCEIVES as you being impressed by, you THEN turn to face her. This causes her to have the perception that

1) you are not needy/desperate/lame
2) she said something WORTH you staying

Have you ever won some stupid contest for a cracker-jack prize or some shit, and went and claimed it??? Even though if you had already owned it, and forgot it at the store, you never would have gone to even pick it up cause its so LAME.. but still, since you WON it, you go pick it up??? That’s what this is like.

Give her the impression that you’re only staying to talk because SHE said something that interested you to stay. Again, do this by ONLY turning once she
is turning FIRST.

The only exception is you can do little tests, like turning quickly towards her, to SEE if she’ll BITE and turn herself.

MAKE HER TRY TO GET RAPPORT WITH YOU.

Then, after you get that, THEN start mirroring her and all that shit. Mirroring is FANTASTIC for getting deep rapport.

Finally, when you phase shift, use very sexual body language.

The sequence in my “gear shifting” post was:
-C&F until she tries to get rapport with “what’s your name” or some variant
-rapport
-phase shift

So you turn away and make her TRY to get rapport with this cocky/funny guy, then you turn towards her normally, THEN when you phase shift you do the sexy body language (EC, triangular gazing, sidelong glances, lip licking, hair sifting, open palms, soft tonality, etc etc)
WARM APPROACHES:

If you have AI (approach invitation), then it is OK to use a more direct body language, or even the “hi” opener.

On warm approaches, feel free to go into phase shift body language right away, if she’s comfortable with it.
——-

OPENERS:

For non-club PU (my absolute expertise, although my club game is getting kinda tight non-club is still way better), experiment with PROJECTING VALUE in your opener. That means that what you do/say projects VALUE to the chick, right off the opener. Some things of value to chicks are:

-fun
-imaginative
-funny
-intriguing
-frame-setting (sets challenges right off the opener)
-opinion
-kino/dominance-establishing
-role playing

Here are some QUICK examples, although I could go on ALL DAY on this.

FUN:
“Hey, check out that kid on Santa’s lap.. wow, remember when x,y,z childhood memories??”

IMAGINATIVE:
“whoa, that is a NICE aquarium.. look at that.. OMG, we should totally hit up the bio-chem department, and get shrunk down like BARBIE AND KEN.. then we could swim around behind that coral right there.. see that.. and totally go on like an underwater adventure like in the Little Mermaid.. don’t get any ideas though, Ken dolls do not come FULLY EQUIPPED” (this reverses the frame at the end as well as an added benefit)

FUNNY:
(pick up the LAMEST CD in the store, like something totally ridiculous) “OMG.. OMG.. this CD is fucking A-W-E-S-O-M-E….. pause for effect while she is gauging if you’re serious…… hahahhahahaha” (so you just break out laughing, but not too obnoxious.. laughter is CONTAGIOUS, so take advantage)

You can use the same formula with CAT FOOD in a grocery store, or WHATEVER..
Humour = stuff that doesn’t go together.

INTRIGUING:
“I just saw the most fascinating thing.. In this newspaper article (whatever, Jamie Lee Curtis story about her fatness or whatever)” (Ricki Lake even qualifies under this category, although I don’t use it myself)

FRAME-SETTING:
“damn.. I-AM-SICK of this cafeteria food.. do you know how to cook? no?? ok we’re broken up then, I’m going to find a woman who can cook.. (while she cracks up, talk to another chick)… OK, so you can’t cook.. well what else do you have going for you??? are you adventurous” (transition to Swingcat style qualifying)

Again, you’re qualifying her right off the OPENER. This is very POWERFUL.. more than stupid “hi, I want to meet you”

OPINION:
“do girls think that David Bowie is hot?” (better than “hi”, because she actually ENJOYS giving her opinion on stupid shit like this)

KINO/DOMINANCE-ESTABLISHING:
wack her with a magazine… tap her.. as she walks towards you, make funny faces, and if she returns them then pretend to punch her while you grab her around her waist and start walking with her “you’re cuuuuute.. you’ll make a nice new girlfriend I think..” (Zan style line).. Follow this with QUALIFYING “wait a sec though, can you cook” and you are MOTHERFUCKING IIIIIINNNNNN LIKE FLYYYYNN BABY!!!!
ROLEPLAYING:
This is my ABSOLUTE TIGHTEST mall opener. This is SO FUCKING TIGHT I GUARANTEE nobody has tighter than this in a clothing store.

Grab a stupid jacket off the rack, and say “whoa, this is SWEET.. I should try this on NOW.. check this out..” …. then start moving to the mirror, and hopefully she’ll start to come.. then GRAB BACK another jacket, the SAME ONE that you have. So now you BOTH try on the stupid jacket, and look in the mirror as you both look THE SAME. Put your arm around her like its for a silly-picture, and look in the mirror together.

Notice that this is EXTREMELY POWERFUL, because she is looking at the TWO OF YOU TOGETHER, wearing the SAME STUPID SHIT. It is ROLEPLAYING that you are like together or something already, like a stupid couple.

Then say “we should STEAL THESE”, and watch her reaction, as you either playfully go along plotting how to do it, or she says NO. If she says “no”, then GRAB HER STUFF, and PRETEND like you’re running out the door with it..

She’ll tackle you, and then you say, “know what?? i know a better way to make $$$.. I need a RICH girl..” and start QUALIFYING HER, the same way as the “girl who cooks” qualifier from the FRAME-SETTING opener from above.

—–

MID-GAME / EARLY / ATTRACTION:

OK, for mid-game, you have to GAUGE how much C&F and various other attracters she needs, in order for HER to try to get rapport with YOU. KEEP FUCKING WITH HER UNTIL *SHE* TRIES TO GET RAPPORT.

That means, do stuff like:
-lying game
-kiss game
-CUBE/SFields/4Questions
-calling her “bad”
-calling her “powerpuff girl”
-a billion other Cocky&Playful things

I do ALL of these C&F. The lying game I use to tease her and ask her funny questions. Kiss game is just PURE COCKY and works AMAZING (read post TD&26 vs. some lame club chicks). CUBE I make fun of her with, and qualify her.

THEN DO STUFF THAT IS F-U-N:
-make her spin around and asking her if she knows how to DANCE (this on the
street)
-make her TEACH YOU HER DANCE MOVES right on the street
-try on CLOTHES together
-teach her an ESP trick, and use it to FOOL PEOPLE together
-poke her and tickle her
-steal something from her and make her try to wrestle it from you

——

MID-GAME / LATE / RAPPORT:

Now ONLY AFTER you’ve done this stuff, will she say:
“what’s your name?”
“where do you work?”

etc etc etc..

What you do is SHIFT GEARS SLOWLY.

You answer with “GUESS” for the first TWO questions or so, and THEN you just ask ONLY what she asks you.

HER: what’s your name
YOU: guess (but now switched OUT of C&F tonality into NORMAL tonality, so its still SWITCHING gears, but NOT TOO FAST since you’re using “guess”)
HER: tom
YOU: no
HER: cliff
YOU: no..
HER: whaaaaat????
YOU: Tyler Durden.. what’s yours?
HER: HBslut
YOU: cool.. I like that.. (compliment is FINE now, since she’s interested)
HER: what do you do?
YOU: guess.. (NON-C&F tone.. NORMAL TONE)
HER: hahah.. ummm ok.. accountant..
YOU: haha.. no I’m definitely not that.. I’m (x-realjob)

Then let her ask you questions, and ask them back, LIKE NORMAL.. NO GAME FROM HERE ON OUT, JUST NORMAL GETTING TO KNOW EACHOTHER LIKE DESTIN9 WANTS.

MOST IMPORTANTLY:

G-E-T === R-A-P-P-O-R-T

I MEAN it.. Get DEEP rapport with the chick, so she fucking LOVES you and feels CONNECTED to you.

If you have laid the GROUNDWORK with the COOL opener (like one of the ones I suggested), and the C&F shit that projects the value that you are COCKY and FUN and PLAYFUL and CHALLENGING, then she will LOVE and RELISH getting to know you.

***AGAIN, the cocky shit is to get from POINT A (indifferent to you) to POINT B (attracted to you). If you have APPROACH INVITATION YOU DO NOT NEED THIS STUFF AND IT MAY POSSIBLY PUSH THE SEDUCTION BACKWARDS.

If you have AI, you CAN use the “hi” and all that bullshit, to great success.

The point is, though, GET RAPPORT. This is KEY. When you do a PURE C&F sarge, you must either FUCK CLOSE, or accept the FLAKE. This is because she comes out of state IMMEDIATELY after you leave, since you have NO RAPPORT. VERY FEW CHICKS will actually meet you for a ‘get-together’ if you have no rapport, no matter HOW MUCH C&F you did, and how much she was loving it.

FORMULA = C&F to get ATTRACTION, conversation/genuine to get RAPPORT.

Make her EARN the genuine rapport building conversation by showing you how PLAYFUL she is.

The SAME conversation that would have been LAME had you not laid down the GROUNDWORK, will seem CHARGED. TRUST ME, go TRY IT.

—-

ENDGAME:

To SEAL THE DEAL, either use GUNWITCH METHOD SEXUAL STATE PROJECTION, or use a PHASE SHIFT ROUTINE.

GUNWITCH METHOD CLOSE: Use TRIANGULAR GAZING (someone should post a LINK to a site with the explanation, cause I’m too tired to explain this in detail). Look at her lips and eyes, lips and eyes, lips and eyes.. Tilt your head, lick your lips, touch her hair, lips and eyes, lips and eyes, lips and eyes, move closer, move closer, lips and eyes, KISS.

PHASE SHIFT CLOSER ROUTINE: Are you intuitive? OK.. Are you intelligent? OK.. Do you understand to follow directions? OK.. Give me your hands..

Take her hands, and run some ring based routine, or palm-reading or some BULLSHIT.. Then talk about soul-gazing and romans and how they knew emotional crap.. Then talk about emotions and it being ALL YOU NEED IN LIFE, and do The EVOLUTION PHASE SHIFT KISS CLOSE (check the Style/CPowles archive for it.. you grab her hair and say its a natural spot and feels good, and to do it to you, etc etc)

THEN, either ISOLATE, or talk softly and fun about FUTURE GET TOGETHER.

If you don’t isolate and same-day f-close, FUCK THE #CLOSE and get a MEET with the chick. Maybe get the #, but REMEMBER that she may have a LIVE IN BOYFRIEND or HUSBAND, so do NOT push the #. Get the MEET, and make it CONVENIENT for yourself to get there on the chance that she flakes.

For meets, I suggest taking her somewhere that is absolutely COST FREE, and gets her adreneline going. Try taking her to a strip where they have sexy/outrageous clothing, and try it on with her.

—-

THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN DESTIN9′S WAY, AND THE WAY THAT I’VE POSTED HERE, WHICH IS THE R-E-A-L WAY:

Destin9’s way of PU’ing does not provide you with the chance to PROJECT VALUE to the chick, outside of your LOOKS.

Basically, Destin9 wants you to just go up, confident, say “hi”, and cross your fingers. The ONLY good thing about it I guess is that you had the balls to approach, which is KINDA good, but still not usually enough for ELITE HOT CHICKS.

The confidence that guys like Twentysix or I have now, after 4 nights per week or NON STOP SARGING is probably enough, because we can FOLLOW it with TIGHT STUFF and have a PUA AURA. But for ANY guy who hasn’t laid many many chicks yet, or hung out non-stop with a guy who has and modelled him, this approach is BULLSHIT.

This way, you project yourself as FUN/EXCITING/CHALLENGING/CONFIDENT.. Plus, by kiss closing by the end of the first encounter, you really set the frame for an early lay.

Just remember that PARTY GIRLS can OMIT the RAPPORT, while LIBRARIAN GIRLS can omit large chunks of the C&F/ATTRACTION. Girls who are IN BETWEEN can just take some of EACH.

What I’ve written here is the REAL SHIT, FIELD TESTED, and actually REAL.

Use the Destin9 way, but ONLY AFTER you have ESTABLISHED VALUE on yourself. THEN do it her way. Her way let’s the GIRL CHOOSE what your value is, based on your LOOKS primarily (though I suppose a LITTLE BIT by your confidence, since you did approach and all, but still mostly by looks when it comes to the hotties)

Fuck all this other bullshit, this is HOW TO SARGE.

Good night, time for TylerD to go to sleep after a long night of sarging. I am fucking exhausted, and apologize for this post probably being shitty.. The content should still be good, if de-cyphered. I just really wanted to type this up on account of that lame-ass Destin9 shit that I read, that fucked me up so bad for 8 months when I read the same shit from some other FEMALE seduction expert.

TylerDurden
=======================================
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast.advanced
Subject: How to REALLY PU, actually FOR REAL..
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 06:43:00 -0500

On 2/3/03 12:21:00 AM, n3rv1 wrote:
>TD you are a self-proclaimed
>master…. yet you don’t post
>any lay-reports. What gives?

OK tiger, settle down..

like I’ve said many times, I don’t post shit about my personal life.. stop being a little bitch, just because your life is going shit right now, that doesn’t give you any beef with me.. you’re projecting nothing but negativity on to the board lately (same with MISSIONS board), and its only because of your LSE that other people’s success hits you on an emotional level.. You know that I never proclaimed being the master (that would be Mystery or Rick H probably), and you’re just misinterpreting me because you’re a little bitch who has nothing going for him in life, and its IN YOUR HEAD that a post without softners makes you feel bad, because the person typing it sounds REASSURED with themselves, which doesn’t fit your model of the world.. in reality, if you’d get your life together, you’d have no problem feeling the same way, and it wouldn’t set off your LSE alarm (in fact it would be easier to read a post that was just straight to the point).. but instead you’d rather I didn’t just post what was on my mind, and you’d rather something that meshed better with your headcase problems.. you’re like a LSE chick.. you have no chance of ever having a high-profile job like I do because of your lifestyle, so you have no reason to care if people dig this shit up down the road.. you’d actually probably be even proud of being known as a scheming-plotting-womanizer, because then at least you’d be SOMETHING.. or maybe its that you think that MRSEX4UNYC shouldn’t have posted either, since he didn’t have LRs for the same reason..

whatever.. if you really cared for legit reasons, you would have emailed or asked Paps.. not asked out of nowhere with the “self-proclaimed” shit..

Either way, its my choice to post what I want, and I don’t owe shit all explanation or accounts of my sexlife to some internet goof from Wisconsin.. if you’re that desperate to know who has the stronger game, you or I, then go ask your wingman Paps who knows both our games very well IRL.

Get well, and post something USEFUL.
=========

LowRider wrote:

“OTOH, when I switched to the standard “Hi, whats going on?” with a smile and GOOD EC, like you said, it gets you into CONVERSATION. CHICKS WILL NOT BRUSH YOU OFF IF YOU SAY “Hi” BECAUSE IT IS FUCKING RUDE IF THEY DO. If they DO, then you can DEFINETLY bust on them for doing that.”
—

This is a VERY important STICKING POINT in your GAME LowRider, and its GREAT that you posted this because once you read what I’m going to write you’ll close alot more chicks.

The ‘hi’ opener is flawed BECAUSE of what you PERCEIVE as its best attribute. When you go up and say ‘hi’, you always get a good response, because the chick will most often feel inclined to be socially-courteous.. Even if you bust on her for not being sociable, if you don’t have the C&F frame down well enough to open using it, then you won’t be successful in that kind of busting on her anyway.. It’ll just trigger her guilt, and make her chat you out of obligation.

This is what you DO NOT want.

(the ONLY exception being if your game is HEAVILY SS/NLP based, and you can turn her on using patterns and hypnotic demos, which is not typically a good route to take as a primary MO)

You want her SHIT TESTING you, so that you can use shit testing evasive measures to prove yourself to her, and get her TURNED ON.

That’s one of the main BENEFITS to doing QUALIFYING right off the gate. You’re even better using the KISS GAME at the VERY START of the PU, just to set that FRAME.

Here’s an example of a fuckup that fellow ASFer 10magnet and I had tonight, PU’ing a stripper where 10magnet works (he works at a strip club).

10: hey.. do girls think that David Bowie is hot?
HER: I dunno.. I like (something here that I forget)
TD: oh dude.. this is a BAD GIRL..
HER: ha.. you know me 5 seconds after meeting me

(this is NOT GOOD AT ALL, because she’s not ENGAGED sexually.. again, her agreement is NOT GOOD for the PU.. she is trying to CHAT US, which is NOT GOOD.. but watch how we turn it around)

TD: yeah right.. whatever.. you’re like PG13 bad.. you can’t hang with us unless you’re FOR REAL.. are you adventurous? HER: haha, this is a challenge.. and if I was dumb enough to fall for it, I’d probably hook up with you guys (this chick is clearly WISE to the game, as she is a stripper)
10: oh, so I guess you won’t be at the company picnic tommorow?
HER: hahaha.. in WINTER??
10: yeah, for real.. its at Nathan Phillips Square, tommorow at 3pm..
TD: yeah.. seriously.. show up.. WE’LL *BE-THERE*..
HER: hahahahha..

Then we STALL, and she’s like “ummmm.. Monday tommorow eh? what are you guys up to” or some shit like that.. (this is REINITIATING CONVO, which is a strong IOI coming from a chick like this.. unfortunately we weren’t really “sarging” since it was unexpected as well as 2-on-1, so we didn’t exploit it like we normally would)

We saw the bartender at a restaurant later in the night, and he told us that she liked us apparently.. Had we just taken her answer to the David Bowie question, I can tell you from experience, there would have been ZERO attraction.

Point was, I could have gone into qualifying her for making enough $$$ from her job to support me, and shit like that (this I’ve done a million times and it works)..

Then we’d KEEP DOING THAT, to keep the frame of a PU. THEN and ONLY THEN, do you move into rapport building.

The BIGGEST FALLACY in ALL OF ASF is CONVERSION RATES.

OK, here is the problem with the CONVERSION FALLACY on ASF:

Guys start PU’ing women, but don’t f_close them.. So they use certain lines that get GOOD REACTIONS, but not LAYS. Then the POST ABOUT THEM, saying a bunch of shit about how its a money line.. They don’t CLOSE, so they extrapolate that it must be good, just because the REACTION they got was good, even though it didn’t convert to a LAY. This is like wearing a CLOWN SUIT to a club – it gets good REACTIONS but no SEX.

An example of that is when an uglier guy says “I’m an ass model” as an answer to the work question. This is a GOOD line in terms of REACTION, but BAD in terms of CONVERSION TO LAYS. (some guys DO pull it off really well though.. I’m just GENERALIZING)

If you’re ugly, its just REMINDING her of your shortcomings, and being a CLOWN. This is like if you asked a FAT CHICK what she does, and she says a “lingerie model”.. this just REMINDS you of her nastiness even more..

So the “HI” opener is yet another CONVERSION FALLACY on ASF. YES, it can help you lay chicks who give you APPROACH INVITATION, or chicks who are on the SAME looks level as you. But it doesn’t set the PICKUP FRAME on SUPER HOTTIES, the way that the VALUE CONVEYING openers that I’ve put examples of do.

If I were to do a test, where I’d spend 1 hour per day for a year, using “hi” as an opener on HB9+ chicks, and 1 hour per day using a challenging/qualifying opener, the result would be roughly something like:

HI OPENER:
-6 chicks opened and convo initiated / 0 snubs
-0 chicks successfully PU’ed – either fclose or non-flake meet (maybe one every
few weeks)
-5 HB9 chicks per year

QUALIFYING OPENER:
-2 chicks opened and convo initiated / 4 snubs
-1 chick PU’ed (2 days per week)
-100 HB9+ chicks per year (maybe you fuck 20 of them who the meet goes well, or
who you don’t screen for personality flaws)

So your SP, IMO, is that you associate OPENING with SEXUAL INTERACTIONS, when the two are NOT related. Notice that you’re AWESOME with PU right now (according to Twentysix), but you’re not LAYING many chicks?? This is the CONVERSION problem at work, and its an extremely common problem.

Think on it.. give me your thoughts once you’ve tested it.
TylerDurden
=======================================
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast.advanced
Subject: How to REALLY PU, actually FOR REAL..
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 08:30:00 -0500

more delusionally tired thoughts on this…
I’m thinking that the way that I do things IN CLUBS will not work on a REAL TRUE BLUE 10.. A stripper or aspiring actress, YES.. but not like a SERIOUS celebrity, like Alyssa Milano or some shit like that..

the way I figure it, is that the way I do things is extremely powerful even for 9.9s.. but for a CELEB chick, like the Cosmo chick I sarged the other day, my approach would have failed had it been in CLUBS, because of the social-proof based atmosphere..

I think that PURE MM (13 steps) would be the ONLY way of doing it..

As of right now, my club MO is different than 13 steps, because when I start CHALLENGING, the ALPHA chick of the group steps up, and her friends see that she may be interested, so they don’t cockblock..

I keep them in the fold with shit like “you are the nice ones.. I’m hanging with you guys” (while I tease the target for being “bad”).. LIKEWISE, I do the KISS GAME, and say “she is soooo gullible” to the obstacles, while I kiss-game the target, to INCLUDE the obstacles in the funny prank I’m playing, since they’re all JEALOUS of the target anyway..

But for the most part, I currently focus LESS on the obstacles than the target, because this style is DISARMING in and of itself.. because you are saying YOU CANNOT HANG WITH ME, the obstacles don’t cockblock the same way that they normally would…

so the approach relies LESS on social proof in terms of the obstacles LOVING YOU, and MORE on the obstacles not getting in the way, thus IMPLICITLY APPROVING of you..

STILL, this may NOT be ENOUGH to sarge a LEGITIMATE ESTABLISHED CELEBRITY, so I theorize that I do NOT currently have what it takes to PU a celeb in a club.. It worked on the Dahm Triplets ONLY because they are basically MENTALLY RETARDED, and the entourage, though thick, was still MANAGABLE..

Still, an awesome approach for even the total hotties in any club.. but not for ELITE HOTTIES, by my projection..

Tyler Durden (Real Social Dynamics)

A very important topic.

Try to bear with me, chunks practical and tactical materials ARE buried within..

In my experience, if I ask a girl what sort of way she feels a guy should go about picking her up, she’ll often reply with something to the effect of:

“Well.. He should come and say ‘Hi’. Then he should just be himself.. He should be confident.. Introduce himself.. Maybe have a sense of humour.. Talk to me a bit so that we can get to know eachother.. And ask me if I’ll go somewhere nice with him.. Oh yeah, also I like it if he’ll just give me his number, just in case, you know..”

This way, she can screen him on looks, and proceed to make a rational decision on her terms.

It would be uncommon to hear a girl say, “I want a guy who will dupe me into a conversation with a chick-bait opener, tease me until I almost lose my mind, weave back and forth with stories that make me go crazy, spin me around and trick me into kissing him with my eyes closed, tell me cute things about himself so I’ll go ga-ga for him, and make fake pre-suppositions to be alone with him so he can caveman me.”

Nor would she likely say “I want a guy to hypnotize me with neuro-linguistic-programming.”

Nor would she likely say “I want a guy who will ignore me and blast me off my pedastal by only talking to my friends, so that I’ll re-validate myself by sleeping with him.”

Of course, these last three work consistently on women of exceptional beauty, and the first one doesn’t (again, CONSISTENTLY).

I draw this conclusion based on experience. My first 8 months in the game, I only had a book called “10 Secrets for Success with Beautiful Women” by a woman named Ursula Lidstrom.

She advocated the sort of approach that most women would want, and claimed her expertise as exceptional because she is a woman offering “inside info”.

Her system was to be yourself, confident, and genuine. Also, to demonstrate alpha status through good bodylanguage and being well dressed. After hundreds of approaches, I got this down pat.

I did at least 5 approaches a day (though usually more), just being myself, confident, and getting to know girls in a way that was very cool and genuine – all as Ursula Lidstrom suggested. Read the book probably 10-15 times. (sidenote: EXCELLENT info on bodylanguage and GWM-style phase shifting can be found in this book, if you screen the rest).

Unfortunately, for those eight months I did not have sex even ONCE. I am not good looking, and could have had sex with HB7s, but that did/does not interest me. I was entirely celibate those eight months. I made many non-sexual friendships with girls, who still to this day social-proof me on campus.

But whenever I’d try to escalate, they’d react with “You’re a really great guy. I’m just not looking for someone right now. You’re really confident, you’ll find someone.”

Bear in mind though also, that I am not goodlooking. This probably could have worked for guys who could convey higher value via their looks. People DO hookup.

Also note that in general, YES you CAN pickup a girl within around 1 look-point difference of you, if you use the method that girls want. So if you’re a 7 yourself, you can occasionally pickup 6s, 7s, and SOMETIMES 8s using this method. Even higher, but that’s a more rare exception.

The reason being, that being confident and genuine IS NOT THAT UNCOMMON, and *unless* the girl doesn’t have many genuine people in her life, it doesn’t CONVEY HIGHER VALUE.

I have MANY genuinely confident people in my life, and while pleasant it is not a big deal to me. Girls are no different.

Genuine and confident people are EVERYWHERE. There is little correlation between these traits, and an exceptionally drop dead gorgeous woman being attracted to a mediocre looking guy.

The ONLY way that you can convey HIGHER value, by using this method, is if you have a RARE connection with the girl. This does happen, though it cannot be called a consistent pickup method, since it relies on external factors (ie: that you actually have a similar world view, or something similar, etc etc).

This is FAST-Seduction, which discusses how to be a PLAYER. If you want to read about spirituality, I highly recommend that. I’ve studied buddhism and volumes of spiritual writings, as well as all of Western philosophy – but not on THIS forum. Still, strong inner-peace leads to strong inner-game, and its beneficial.

Health, wealth, relationships -> go to the gym, eat right, find work you love, read important literature, surround yourself with people you love. ALL IMPORTANT to feeling good about yourself, which is important to pickup in ways that cannot even be adaquetely described through this limited cyber-medium.

But yet, even HAVING those things, will you be a *PLAYER*? I know MANY people who have reached this level of enlightenment who are not.

At the time that I was focusing on being genuine and building rapport, I was very much “emotionally whole”. I had everything going well for me in my life, and I was a genuinely happy person. I had goodwill towards everyone around me, and projected a positive vibe. This was great, but did not result in success with any exceptionally beautiful women.

Anyway, that was MY EXPERIENCE after eight long months of field-testing this way of doing things. It’s just the experience of ONE GUY, so take it for what its worth.

——

SO, WHAT DO WOMEN WANT?

I recall having a convo with Toecutter about his friend who would walk up to women, and tell them that he was rich and wanted to marry them.

He would weave the story, work it, and sleep with them that night. Then he’d blow them off the next day, leaving them heartbroken.

Now my first reaction to this was to be appalled.

I questioned my respect for Toecutter, and generally wondered what he could possibly be thinking. How could he justify this sort of thing?

He said that I was living in an AFC mindset, and that women LOVED “to have their hopes and dreams shattered by scoundrels like Han Solo” and such, and that it was something that they actually WANTED.

He suggested that I read NANCY FRIDAY “My Secret Garden”, to read about women’s rape fantasies, and how repressive society has generated a common female fantasy for badboys who will break down their socially-taught resistance, and treat them like the “dirty” girls that deep down they know themselves to be.

From reading the book, I interpreted it as saying that the guy tricking/forcing the girl into sex, and leaving her was the girl’s way of CONFIRMING that he was the kind of guy that she wants. (sort of to say that the jerk/badboy/untamable behaviour was some sort of CERTIFICATION that the girl has been fertalized by an alpha-seed, or something bizarre to that effect).

Very weird, and disturbing. I did NOT like reading this, nor do I necessarily like it now.

Basically, I interpreted that girls like DRAMA of ANY kind. They want INTENSE emotional drama. As Alphahot mentioned in a post a few threads below this one, they gravitate towards sources of extreme emotions. Scoundrels who use them and thus give them drama. And they gravitate towards it.

Of course, I was skeptical, and even after reading Nancy Friday I still maintained the view that these fantasies were anomolies, and that most women did not want this sort of thing.

Eddy also read this book, and shared my opinion. Be both generally hated it, and I recall Eddy throwing the book across the room several times.

Other PUAs who visit us comment on how scuffed up the book is, as Eddy has thrown it literally on almost every occassion he’s read it, screaming “that could be my own mom!!! that could be my own mooooommmmmm!!!! ARGHHHHHH!!!”

—–

FIELD TESTING NANCY FRIDAY:

In California, I talked to Craig from the archives. He talked about Rick H, and how Rick would talk about women being adaptable.

“Women are adaptable.. whatever frame you set, they’ll adapt to.. if you set a frame of provider candidate, they’ll adopt a screen frame.. if you set a frame of them being screened for dirty slutty lesbian sex, they’ll turn into sluts”

Coming from Rick H, I couldn’t downplay this, and decided to explore it more. Particularly after the Toecutter/NancyFriday stuff seemed to gel with this.

From this I spawned the idea for JERK ROUTINES, where I would INTENTIONALLY convey that I like to use and abuse women, right from the start of the pickup. The frame would be set.

I set to the task of field testing it, which I did non-stop for six straight weeks before posting something potentially misleading.

First,

I would do things like tell women to close their eyes, and then kiss them. Tell them that I love them within seconds of meeting, even though this is clearly a way to get into their pants. I would even tell subtle stories about how I am currently planning to use women to get to all their friends.

Then,

I adopted the SWINGCAT STYLE QUALIFYING. “Are you adventurous? Cause if you’re not adventurous, I can’t hang with you.”

Up until the Nancy Friday test, I would get them to tell adventurous stories, like extreme sports or travelling or something.

But then I REALIZED the TRUE use in the Swingcat adventurous qualifying.

“Adventurous” was to be a EUPHIMISM for “SLUTTY”.

I stopped getting them to tell me stories about adventures, and instead would just pause, and wait for them to give me the REAL DIRT.

Around 90% of women would start telling me about how they love to suck dick and take it on the face. How they dream about getting gang-raped and fucked by strange men and hot guys from clubs.

LITERALLY, I would sit there PRETENDING like I thought this was just great. Making myself out to be NON-JUDGEMENTAL, and even ENCOURAGING. But really, inside, I was thinking “shit I dunno if I can stomach this..” I was still in an AFC mindset. I thought that this was just a series of strange coincidences, and that these girls couldn’t represent the majority.

I was forced to RE-ASSESS my VALUE SYSTEM for making judgements on what constituted a nice-girl, since clearly ALL girls had a “slut” side to them.

——

SIDENOTE:

This was similar to my experience when I first tested routines based on spells and the unknown. I’d always thought that most girls didn’t believe in psychics and ESP, until I began making it sound like *I* did, and that I would not JUDGE them on it. I found out that most girls DID believe in ESP, and that those few who didn’t could be convinced otherwise with even the most simplistic mentalist illusion.

——

So much like the non-judgemental frame that use with the ESP stuff, I’d appear NON-JUDGEMENTAL for their “slutty” desires.
—

THE “NEW” TD:

It was difficult for me, because I’ve always been extremely conservative/rightwing/republican.

I changed my image to include wild clothes that projected myself as a badboy sexual being. I started wearing clothes of a female sex fantasy, such as racecar jackets, industrial plat boots, bondage shit, spikey dyed hair, outrageous coolguy accessories, etc etc.

Initially, this was hard for me to stomach. I felt very incongruent for the first week or two.

I began PROJECTING that I was a SCOUNDREL JERK who would intentionally and openly USE and ABUSE of women. I projected “TD is a jerk, who MAKES NO EXCUSES for it.. Like a rockstar, he fucks his groupies, and sends them home happy that they could get even that”.

It’s funny, because this isn’t the case – I didn’t feel that way. But in the past, projecting the CONSERVATIVE REAL ME wasn’t eliciting any SEXUAL reaction from women.

I decided that IF I CONTINUED DOING WHAT I HAD ALWAYS DONE, I’D CONTINUE TO GET THE RESULTS THAT I’D ALWAYS GOTTEN. (this isn’t my catchphrase.. maybe Tony Robbins, I dunno.. Mys uses it all the time).

I know that CLOUD9 also has had inner-conflicts with this. For me, one of top students in my country, its been difficult to DEGENERATE my speaking manneurisms to a more colloquial level.. “like, you know, totally, like, cool…” But unfortunately, my “Queens-talk” (as everyone used to describe my articulate speaking manneurisms) wasn’t eliciting strong sexual responses from the sexy girls that I was interested in. They wanted to validate themselves with me, sure. But what they wanted to validate was that they could be as sophisticated as me. IOW, that they’re smart, and that they’re ladies.

So go ahead and bust on me for being incongruent and not real to myself or something like that. But at the end of the day my girlfriend is an HB10… aside also from the HB8 and HB8.5 that I am also seeing, all of who are really cool girls and who I am genuine with now, AFTER having gotten with them – NOT BEFORE.
WOMEN’S REACTIONS:

Now, when I walk into a room on campus, women start giggling and checking me out. They touch me, shit test me immediately to see if I really AM what I project, and show massive physical IOIs (face me, lean in, perk up their breasts, lick their lips, big eyes, etc etc etc).

I do NOTHING other than just walk into the room, and convey the attitude that’s discussed in this post.

“I will fuck you the second you let your guard down, because I am a badboy and that’s just me” is the image that I convey, and women respond instantly.

Of course, MOST women will be initially ATTRACTED, but still won’t sleep with me from that feeling alone. They can’t quite justify their desire, because of social-conditioning.

So the SOLUTION: Show that they have a CHANCE to tame you, and that you have a sensitive inside somewhere deep down.. -> GET RAPPORT.

This leads me to the all important ………

—

WILLFUL COGNITIVE DISSONANCE:

Going back to the TOECUTTER “marry-me” routine, what have I learned?

Toecutter explained that women WILLFULLY IGNORE the truth, in order to preserve the feelings that they are deriving from the massive drama that you provide.

This is also from MANIAC_HIGH, so if you disagree then maybe check out the new maniac plan for more detailed explication.

Anyway, Toecutter states that the girls who were “duped” by the marriage trick were in fact WELL-AWARE that it was clearly bullshit, but that they WANTED to go along with it, so that they could experience the ADVENTURE.

The same goes for Mystery’s girlfriend of 5 years, who STILL BELIEVES that he genuinely has MAGIC POWER, including an ability to levitate himself from the ground, move objects with his mind, and read thoughts telepathically.

Of course, having been with him for 5 years, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that she wouldn’t have figured out how he does his illusions. Despite his sharp skills, many illusions I figured out after hanging with him for just a month. He may have done it over 300 times before I figured it out, but EVENTUALLY I DID figure it out.

This girl is with him FIVE YEARS and CHOOSES TO BELIEVE THAT THE WORLD IS NOT MUNDANE. There is NO WAY she wouldn’t have caught the illusion at least ONE TIME in FIVE YEARS.

She WILLFULLY DECEIVES HERSELF to believe what she wants, because she likes the DRAMA and ADVENTURE.

Same goes with Mystery’s other long term girlfriends, who KNOW, read *KNOW*, that he is constantly with other women.

Why does Mystery have condoms all over his room? hmmmmmm… Could he really go months without sex while he travels??? hmmmmm…. What does it mean when girls call him non-stop while they’re in bed together??? hmmmmm… He walks into the club and girls SWARM him… hmmmmmm.. He picked her up and fucked her first night they met… hmmmm….

But still they CHOOSE to IGNORE it, because he provides the drama that they want.

And as a BONUS, they get to go home and spend time convincing their parents and friends how great Mystery is, which gives them even MORE drama.

Likewise, in my small community, I go pickup girls. They go back to their roomates, who inevitably on some occassions will have been picked up by me a month earlier. But does that REPEL them from me, like our LOGICAL AFC-INDOCTRINATED brains would have so long expected? NOPE. It just gives them MORE DRAMA and sucks them in even deeper.

This was even the case when they’ve heard that I used the SAME OPENERS and ROUTINES. Strange, huh? You’d think that it would break their interest. But not the case. Why not? Could it be that finding out that I am a womanizing-“jerk” was congruent with what I projected during the pickup?

——

SOME CONCLUSIONS – A RE-ASSESSMENT OF WHAT CONSTITUTES A WOMAN’S VALUE:

So that’s it. I get it now. Women aren’t like what I thought. Or rather, at least when it comes to SEX.

The girls that I thought were ‘nice’ have revealed that they’ve been fucked by anonymous guys, loved it, and want it again.

The girls that I thought were LOYAL to their boyfriends have called them from my bed, GUILT-FREE, lying about where they were last night like it was NOTHING.

I’ve found that girls break guys into categories of SEDUCERS and EMOTIONAL SUPPORTERS, and that if I don’t want my girl to cheat on me, she’s gonna have to get her drama from ME, and not from some asshole player.

So if that is the case then, what kind of girl do I look for when I’m ready to have children or get married?

—

IN LIGHT OF THIS KNOWLEDGE, WHAT CONSTITUTES A GOOD WOMAN???

I am still deciding on this, and really I have only limited insights.

But for me, at this time, I use NON-AFC-CULTURE based value judgements.

I look at the kind of connection that I have with her, and the way that we get along AFTER we’ve “hooked-up”.

Because, like Mystery, I agree that only AFTER you hookup do you start communicating GENUINELY.

The FIRST genuine conversation happens in bed together, AFTER THE GAME IS OVER, and you find out whether or not this was just a validation-game, or if its an emotional connection.

And do *I* necessarily want the games? Nope.

I remember when I first did clubs, and I’d tease a high calibre HB. Say a 9 or 10. And she’d touch me, and say that she liked me. But as soon as I’d RECIPROCATE that, she’d LOSE INTEREST. It was a SHIT TEST, NOT genuine communication. Or was it? Was it genuinely communicating that she wanted to see if I was really the jerk she wanted me to be, and that she had to test me to find out?

Do shit tests constitute genuine communication? The girl is tricking you, to find your true nature. But then, if you pass, you genuinely will hookup with her. So is the girl genuine, or not? Not necessarily an easy question to answer.

YES, I have MANY genuine emotional connections with girls. My sister, her friends, my pivots, my relatives, my teachers. The girls that I am ALREADY with – my 3 MLTRS.

But NOT with girls that I am in the MIDST of picking up, because it is still *GAME-ON*.

Afterwards, once I have PROVEN myself to be the kind of man that she wants, I can get to know her on a more personal and genuine level. Until then, it is about SEXUAL ATTRACTION, which is NOT necessarily related to genuine communication. It CAN be, but it isn’t necessarily the case.

And why? Because there are several types of attraction, and while we may make socially based value judgements on which are more legitimate, the fact remains that they EXIST.

And of course, if genuine communication in the TRADITIONAL SENSE was the BASIS of ATTRACTION, then I suppose I’d probably be hooked up with the very fat and ugly girl from my history class, with whom I had a great conversation with last fall.

But then, the attractive girls I bed will most often BACKWARDS RATIONALIZE whatever nice things she finds out about me, and probably decide that THOSE things were CLEARLY what allowed her to be seduced by me. Of course that’s all after the fact. Contingencies.

This is how the game is played bros, at least in my personal opinion. Just the opinion of a new PUA, trying to make sense of all of this. Some of it is probably dead-on, and some of its probably inaccurate. Take it for what its worth.
—
WHAT *IS* GENUINE?

So if people play these games, what constitutes genuine?

What *is* genuine? If I were to be TRULY genuine with what *I* wanted to talk to girls about, I’d discuss logic and other esoteric philosophical issues. I’d discuss cars, and mechanics, and sports, and wars, and taking extreme risks and my criminal youth. I’d discuss how I’m right-wing and how I believe in certain repressive traditional values. I’d discuss John Rawls vs. Robert Nozick.. I’d discuss Heideger and Nietzche and Sartre, and subjective morality in a world without dogmatic value sources. I’d discuss Kripke and causal theory. I’d discuss flaws in symbolic notation. This stuff FASCINATES me.

I don’t LIKE talking about social dynamics and feelings. It BORES me. *Most* things that *most* girls like to talk about are of NO INTEREST to me.

I DO NOT ENJOY running JUGGLER’s rapport routines like “I really like pizza” and “this is what my own palm says about me” and “what would your life be rated if it was a movie?”, and making those kind of self-revealing statements. Nor would I like them any better had I invented them.

Or rather, I LIKE running them, for the purpose of PICKING UP. But I don’t run them for the SOLE SAKE of running them.

I will USE this stuff, but I don’t LIKE it anymore than ANY OTHER stuff that I use. NONE of it is the “REAL ME” in the TRADITIONAL SENSE, so both MM and Juggler method are EQUAL in my mind.

I AM NOT stating that they don’t work, or that Juggler’s method isn’t GREAT. Juggler-method WORKS – its GREAT.

But I *AM* stating that it is NO MORE GENUINE for me to PRETEND that I am enjoying talking about real genuine feelings in a Juggler-style that I really don’t care to talk about, than it is for me to run the routines that I do most of the time now.

Either way, I’m FAKING SOMETHING. As are MOST sensitive new aged guys who will talk about this sappy crap, in the subconscious hope that it will gain attention from women.

Picking up by talking about real stuff that I feel, but DO NOT want to be talking about, is of no greater value to me than telling stories that I read from the internet. I’m still being ungenuine, in a SENSE, because my motivations extend BEYOND the expression itself.

Again, this is NO CRITICISM OF JUGGLER. His stuff ROCKS. My sole statement though is that it is NO MORE OR LESS GENUINE for me to run one pickup style, or another. They are all equal in that respect.

So what if I just talked about things I *AM* interested in talking about. The esoteric technical stuff. Well if I talk about these things girls will leave. They’ll either argue, get bored, or flat walk away. They won’t be interested, and they’ll anchour feelings of boredom to me. I’ve TESTED this.

Why? Basic supply and demand. There are many genuine and confident people out there, and some give them better emotions than others. So I “set the bait” with the stuff that they’ll react to sexually. Of course you could cry ‘supplication!’, but then really we all supplicate ourselves in one way or another. The trapper supplicates by laying bait, but then he reaps the rewards later. Putting in work to get a result is not supplication.

And let’s say that being “myself” DID find me that ONE special girl.. I STILL wouldn’t care, because I’m not INTERESTED in that kind of relationship in my early twenties anyway.

SO:

Is REFUSING to play games genuine?

If that’s the case, then WHY have I SO RARELY had a girl angry or upset with me?

I mean, even after NUMEROUS relationships, have I had less problems than my average AFC friend with just a handful.

Many people probably QUESTION why I would pawn off 2 HB7s to pickup a HB9 or 10. Rightly so. But what they don’t realize from behind their remote computer screens is that so long as you ACTIONS ARE CONGRUENT TO YOUR BADBOY FRAME, girls will EXPECT this behaviour, and NEVER be surprised when it happens. It’s part of who you are, and they’re SMART enough to know its coming.

Even with the bit of rapport that they NEED to justify their embarkment on your adventure, they still KNOW what is coming, and ACCEPT IT.

I’ll have girls that I never called back, or pawned off for hotter girls, ALWAYS coming over to chat me and catch up. They’re never upset. Always very happy to see me again.

In my opinion, there is a clear cut reason -> While my sexual persona may not be as congruent with my real personality as I’d like, my *ACTIONS* are CONGRUENT with what I *PROJECT*.

Since the girls I associate with KNOW and EXPECT that its going to be a short-lived ADVENTURE (given that I’ve made it fully obvious from the start), they NEVER get genuinely upset when it ends. Sure, they may pout briefly, but then they’re off to the NEXT STIMULUS – be it the next socially-proofed jerk, or dancing, or drinks.

On the other hand, back when I used to be the LOYAL-AFC, when I’d dump the few girls I got they’d get VERY UPSET.

Which makes me think: Is it more genuine to build connections where you project that you are a more quiet one-girl type, when that is not you (even if you state polyamory, you still come-off that way). Or is it more genuine to be a jerk up front, and allow the chick to FREELY CHOOSE to go along for the short-adventure or not.

I guess we have to come to our own answers, and find our own subjective value systems. That’s life. I don’t judge. Call it aggrandized self-rationalization, but this is just the way that I make sense of the world that I’ve been thrown into, given my life experiences and how I’ve assimilated them.

The interactions with the women in my life ARE genuine, but during the initial phases of our relationship – the period where the FRAME is BARGAINED for and ESTABLISHED – I strive to convey that there are only CERTAIN parameters that I am comfortable with.

And making it obvious that I am only a short-lived adventure for them, through the jerk-way that I present myself, is the way that I go about doing it. Once the pact is made (sex), I’m comfortable to be fully myself. Discuss what I want, etc etc.. And the girls are ALWAYS happy to discuss stuff that is important to me AFTER we’ve had sex, because she’s made that investment in me, and NOW FINALLY wants to know more about who I am. I fully believe that as a sexual-partner-candidate, you are NOTHING to a girl before you’ve had sex.

Or rather, you may be a friend. But that entitles you to nothing sexually. Nor should it.

–

BECOMING CONGRUENT:
When taking a job-interview, you’ll present yourself in a particular way. During a family gathering, it may be another way. And with your friends, it may be another way.

Everyone has different SIDES to their personality, and each judges when it is APPROPRIATE to exhibit a particular side.

Why not “just be yourself” at ALL times? Because EACH of these sides ARE the “real you”, just different aspects.

Acting the SAME in ALL situations is INCONSIDERATE to the people around you. If you horse around at a job interview, you show lack of respect for the interviewer’s experience. If you act overly sophisticated with your friends, you show lack of respect for the bond that you have with them, and the clowning-around that goes along with it.

And as with the boss at the job interview, you hope to eventually get to know your girl on a more “genuine” level, when the time is APPROPRIATE.

When INITIALLY PICKING UP A GIRL, showing the side of yourself that ELICITS SEXUAL REACTION is MOST APPROPRIATE, because you are not putting the girl in a position where she has to snub you based on sexual indifference to your approach. You don’t like it that most girls like to party? TO BAD. Don’t post about it on the PLAYER board.

Being unsexual during pickup can be UNAPPROPRIATE.

The girls that I pickup CLEARLY KNOW that I am someone who is TOYING with them, that it gives them drama that they like, and that our relationship will likely be short-lived. It is OBVIOUS, because at this point I am THAT GOOD.

Women are no more in the dark about my nature than men are about women with fake breasts. They KNOW what’s up, but they DON’T CARE.

And REALLY, these had been my intentions ALL ALONG. I am young, want to PARTY, and am not interested in actively seeking anything beyond a sexual connection at this point. Should it happen – GREAT. But I’m not SEEKING it. So why did I try to gain sexually via rapport and connections in the past? Solely for PRAGMATIC reasons. I thought that it would WORK.

So was I really congruent before? NO. I was just CONFORMING, and hadn’t the NERVE to show my intentions.

Also, I didn’t REALIZE that my intentions WERE NOT EVIL. Women APPRECIATE these kinds of guys, and you BENEFIT when you openly demonstrate that you are that guy – making no excuses for it.

While AT FIRST I felt INCONGRUENT, I later realized that in fact I HAD BECOME congruent.

I began PROJECTING the sort of image that was congruent with my INTENTIONS, and girls were reacting better, and never showing unpleasant surprises as in they had in the past.

My act of pre-planning and studying lines and tactics to project my badboy image IS CONGRUENT with who I am, because who I am is someone whose intentions are to interact with women in this way.

They enjoy it. I enjoy it.

They benefit. I benefit. We MUTUALLY benefit.

I am now congruent. I feel good for it.

If you want to judge it, go ahead. Just don’t claim that your philosophy has any superiority over any other subjective value-judgement, because it is just that. A subjective value judgement.

–

CONCLUSION:

So there you have it. Many chicks dig jerk-asshole types. Who ever said that the community never makes new discoveries anyway? hmmmmm….

And what is genuine? What is truth? Those questions are to be pondered over a lifetime, and they are part of what makes the human experience dynamic.

But if I can draw one solid conclusion, its that claiming absolute knowledge of such questions is self-indulgent. And in the opinion of this lowly-PUA, its not genuine.
-TD
==========================
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast.advanced
Subject: What is genuine? What is mutual benefit? (verylong
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:43:00 -0400

Just checking in here … ran a search to see what people are saying about my ideas. The things you have quoted me on is not the sort of advice I would have put out onto this public forum with all sorts of disfunctional whackos reading it. On the other hand, it is nice that you are breaking out of a “square” view of sexuality.

The reason I jump in here and post is because I know that people do things just because I said it was a good thing to do. Do not read the wrong things into what TD has said of my advice. Not unless you are sexually hip. Like when you can watch 2 men kissing in a film without turning away. When you are gentle and like women. When you can do all of the sexual role playing with a smile and affection for the girl. Most of you reading this are not there, so dont even bother. Nevertheless I will expand a little.

TD wrote:
> I recall having a convo with Toecutter about his friend who would walk up to women, and tell them that he was rich and wanted to marry them.
>
> He would weave the story, work it, and sleep with them that night. Then he’d blow them off the next day, leaving them heartbroken.
>
> Now my first reaction to this was to be appalled.
>
> I questioned my respect for Toecutter, and generally wondered what he could possibly be thinking. How could he justify this sort of thing?
>
>He said that I was living in an AFC mindset, and that women LOVED “to have their hopes and dreams shattered by scoundrels like Han Solo” and such, and that it was something that they actually WANTED.

OK, this guy we are talking about that proposes to chicks is a good friend, and a truely excellent PUA. Not in the walk-in-with-square-shoulders-on-a-mission kind, but rather he just surrounds himself in women. He specialises in the waitresses from the hottest venues in town, as well as the elite looking girls within those venues. TD, if you had met him you would understand. BL met him, but unfortunately did not hear him recount stories of how he proposed to chicks. The stories are halarious. He is a good story teller.

The guy IS a scoundrel. That is his style. He will blatently hit on a waitress in a playful way. Ask them outright if they have a boyfriend while they are taking his order. Run cheeky and blatent boyfriend destroyers on them (not as covert hypnosis, but as comedy). Ask them if they don’t think they need more of a James Bond type in their life [blatent and obvious self point and cheeky grin]. They laugh, batter their eyelids and try to tell him they are taken, and it is all fun. All a game. This is what one might call flirting. He is a good flirt. The girls love it.

The marry me thing crosses over into sexual fantasy, however. It is fantasy role play. I knew at the time (when I explained it to you) you weren’t hip to it (sexual fantasy role play). You seemed to me to have a square madonna/whore view of sexuality. If you can get hip to sexual fantasy role play, you will become a good PUA. You will have to change a fair bit of your persona to make it congruent, but there perhaps is the key. It signals to the girls that you are good in bed. Simple as that. And play games in the bedroom. And are fun. And are confident. In your-self. In your sexuality. And don’t take yourself too seriously. And are able to joke and “just pretend” in the way children do so easily.

TD wrote:
>He suggested that I read NANCY FRIDAY “My Secret Garden”, to read about women’s rape fantasies, and how repressive society has generated a common female fantasy for badboys who will break down their socially-taught resistance, and treat them like the “dirty” girls that deep down they know themselves to be.

Don’t get me wrong. Those fantasies are not violent rape fantasies. They are fantasies about being a 16th century dutch maid in a windmill in old Amsterdam and being taken from behind while she scrubs the floor by her master for example (I think I just made that up). It is about taking away all the heavy consequences from sex. Like all the risks; emotional, societial, physical risks that are so overwhealming that if a girl considers it too long she will never fuck anyone. In many of the fantasies she imagines herself a different person so that even in the fantasy she does not have to take responsibility for why she would be doing this.

Womens fantasy novels are full of fortune hunters (tricking the lead female out of her knickers and her fortune in a lavish ploy), pirates and others of that type. It is not that girls deep down are “dirty girls” (the word itself holds large values judgements about how you view sex and women). You know that some girls like to get drunk to absolve themselves of the responsibility for their actions. And similarly that LMR is often a plea to have you take away her free will. Not using physical strength (or at least not in anything more than a play-acting way). This is a subtle thing, and you have to be extremely hip and cool to understand exactly what I mean here.

TD wrote:
> From reading the book, I interpreted it as saying that the guy tricking/forcing the girl into sex, and leaving her was the girl’s way of CONFIRMING that he was the kind of guy that she wants. (sort of to say that the jerk/badboy/untamable behaviour was some sort of CERTIFICATION that the girl has been fertalized by an alpha-seed, or something bizarre to that effect).

No you have misinterpreted what I meant. It is not some test they put you into because they are “choosing” or “testing” or wanting to give you some sort of “certification”, I am talking about being the real deal where you choose her for an evening of pleasure. Being hip and playful and understanding that right now in this given moment she NEEDS you to tell her that she has no choice so that it makes it all okay for her to take the next step towards doing what she will soon be doing because she has no choice. She is swept away in the moment and the situation. We need to be very careful here though. The resistance needs to be nominal and tokinal. Not real resistance. DO NOT READ ME IN THE WRONG WAY. THIS IS ROLE-PLAY, NOT RAPE. It is like when you tie your girl-friends wrists and ankles to the bed in consentual sex and get together a “safe word” to have you let her out if she ever becomes uncomfortable. Other than the safe word she can scream “No”, “Don’t”, “Stop”, and it is just her getting into the scenario in her mind. It is consentual. It is role play. Only in a PU the rules of engagement have not been made explicit like with your girl-friend. This COULD actually be the real deal for her, and she COULD be acutally living out her fantasy. On the other hand the guy might just be play-acting like her ex. The thrill of not knowing but going ahead anyway makes it twice as good for her. You have to be extremely sensitive to find rules of egagement without them being articulated (thus ruining the fantasy) that both you and her are comfortable with. It is not for squares. You have to be hip to it before you can understand it and live it. In other words, if you are not hip to it and have a square meat-and-potatoes view of sex, dont go near this because you will fuck it up, get yourself into serious trouble and leave emotional scars both on you and an innocent girl.

TD wrote:
> Of course, I was skeptical, and even after reading Nancy Friday I still maintained the view that these fantasies were anomolies, and that most women did not want this sort of thing.

These are not anomolies. This is the fantasy world of women. Buy one of those Harlequin romance novels and read it. The novel is one long womens fantasy. There is nothing wrong with sex. Women like it in that dream-like way of the novels. Not the hard focus gritty reality way of mens porn films.

TD wrote:
> I would do things like tell women to close their eyes, and then kiss them. Tell them that I love them within seconds of meeting, even though this is clearly a way to get into their pants.

This needs to be done in a cheeky way. Not for a guy who takes himself seriously. Comedy.

> I would even tell subtle stories about how I am currently planning to use women to get to all their friends.

Don’t like it. It comes off as machiavalian and conniving (is that how you spell it?).

TD wrote:
> It was difficult for me, because I’ve always been extremely
> conservative/rightwing/republican.
>
> I changed my image to include wild clothes that projected myself as a badboy sexual being. I started wearing clothes of a female sex fantasy, such as racecar jackets, industrial plat boots, bondage shit, spikey dyed hair, outrageous coolguy accessories, etc etc.

Yes, I can see that this would be difficult for you. It would require you relaxing. Walking, talking and holding yourself with less excitability and tension (in your neck, shoulders, etc.). Just unwinding and speaking slower. Listening better because you are comfortable in your skin (and once you have listened you are still free to judge or say exactly what your think without fears about “what she’ll think of me”, because you are cool and bad and she is a pretty but stupid little girl). And then connecting on a relaxed, playful and non-judgemental level with the kinky little freak that she has inside. And leading that little freak without giving her the yes/no choice at any stage. This is more complex than buying some accesories like a racecar jacket. It would be great to see you pulling this off, I am sure with some effort you will do well.

> I began PROJECTING that I was a SCOUNDREL JERK who would intentionally and openly USE and ABUSE of women. I projected “TD is a jerk, who MAKES NO EXCUSES for it.. Like a rockstar, he fucks his groupies, and sends them home happy that they could get even that”.

OK this is good.

> Toecutter explained that women WILLFULLY IGNORE the truth, in order to preserve the feelings that they are deriving from the massive drama that you provide.

Not just women, we all do it. We all have our rose coloured glasses. But you have summed this up very elequently so I will leave it there, I have things to do.
==========================
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast.advanced
Subject: What is genuine? What is mutual benefit? (verylong
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 04:26:00 -0400

On 4/24/03 5:08:00 AM, TeaDrinkingGuy wrote:
>It took me a long time to read
>this thread, and I really had
>to think about how this fit
>into/affected my view, which
>is rather feminist (and
>probably too liberal for TD
>;)..
>

How many girls did you approach this week? Sounds like you are sprouting philisophical bullshit to me. You think “feminist leanings” will get you laid because you are ingratiating yourself to women? Sorry buddy, it wont. Here is a feminist routine for you:

“I remember in the early 90’s there was this article about how more women were asking men to marry them … I found it interesting … I mean can you imagine that … if it was the women who were asking men to marry them as a rule. I mean it would trickle down all the way to here (the bar that we are in). I mean if it were the women who were asking the men, then the whole thing would be turned up-side-down. And the men would be sitting here on the bar stools. And it would be the women doing the approaching.

“And all the confident girls would be the ones with the attention of all the boys (s.p.) and the shy girls would be sitting in the corners with a beer on their chest.(point at the lamos)

“How would you go? Would you have the courage to approach some guy who would may say “Sorry, darlin’, not into to you. Best of luck next time. But how about you buy me a drink… [let her answer]

“And maybe the guys would look at things differently. Like since I would no longer have my choice of any woman(point away), but only those that approach me (point at her), I might look for the girls that all the other guys seem to be into. Like if they all like her, then she must be good, right?

“So what might I be in to?”

And then let her tell you exactly what she looks for since you have swaped situations with her.

Then you go: “Yeah, I used to know a guy who claimed he was a feminist. Like he wasn’t really because he denied women their sexuality. Claimed he was completely on their side, and into feminism. I guess that he thought it was a good strategy to build rapport. He claimed that men treated women as sexual objects but they are not, they are these asexual beings. Like he used to say that all men are arse-holes and that women deserve a soft feminist guy like him. Idiot!

“I mean the way I see it is that women have all these natural thoughts … and desires … and fantasies. And there are these “feminist” idiots that claim they know (point away) … but the real man (s.p.) know and see all those things that you are actually into … and can do all those things. Like perhaps he can be gentle, but on the other hand he understands how you like a real man. Like perhaps he knows how to pull your hair [as you pull her hair]. Are you into that? Here, pull my hair: Yeah, that feels good. And he knows what you like and how to give it to you … etc.

Tyler Durden (Real Social Dynamics)

Taught a few hundred guys by now just from meeting guys through PAIR and in workshops recently, and this is the shit that ups their game instantly with no tactics or anything. I see this shit ALL THE TIME. It’s the BIGGEST and most COMMON problem I see after everyone I’ve met. This is some of the main shit I focus on fixing when I’m in the field.

Almost EVERYONE I met so far screws up this shit, and it totally fucks up their sarges.

If you do this, don’t feel bad. 99% of guys I meet do it to various extents (myself included).

This is the extension of the “10 alpha qualities” post, which was when I was first figuring out what this shit meant. Back then, I was just posting observations. This post contains conclusions, having now thought about it.

ERADICATE this shit, and your game will go up B-I-G-T-I-M-E, more than ANY tactics will help you. This is part of what’s called being a “natural”. Even with nothing else, if you know this stuff you’ll do well socially, and probably get laid. This stuff is the KEY.

This stuff is only for people who play the REAL game, not the INTERNET ARMCHAIR GAME. So guys who don’t actually PLAY can skip this, because there’s not much theory in it – its directly applicable.

1) FIDGETY MOVEMENTS AND TIGHT SHOULDERS AND TAKING YOURSELF TOO SERIOUSLY OR BEING TOO BUSINESSLIKE OR “SOPHISTICATED” (not laughing or being relaxed) = very visible subconsious (or conscious) self-doubt, overcompensating through non-relaxed state, where you’re prepared to deal with anything that could happen. Ever met someone who doesn’t blink when you talk to them?

2) TALKING TOO FAST = worried that people will stop listening to you unless you get out something that will interest them before they leave

3) LAUGHING AT YOUR OWN JOKES = covering up that you aren’t affected that others didn’t laugh, and social nervousness

4) SAYING “RIGHT” OR “YOU KNOW” AFTER STATEMENTS = seeking validation that what you said was true, or saying it because others aren’t

5) STANDING WITH LEGS NOT HALF A METER APART AT LEAST = worried that you’ll infringe on other people’s personal space

6) TALKING TOO SOFTLY OR LOUD = fear that you’ll impose yourself on people and their personal space(ie: beta).. alpha males aren’t afraid to project their voice.. YET, talking obviously too LOUD can also be seen as OVERCOMPENSATING. Just like guys who wear GENERIC clothes are trying to fit in, or guys who wear OUTRAGEOUS clothes are trying too hard to overcompensate. (hint: be careful with peacocking, find a style that doesn’t come off this way, which can be tricky but is still very doable).. Some guys don’t talk, some talk too much, etc etc.. Find appropriate balance through trial and error, which is determined through social observation,

7) MOVING YOUR HANDS AROUND WHILE YOU TALK = trying to keep the attention of the group (sometimes can be cool, but most often a form of qualifying yourself)

8) LEANING IN *or* ‘PECKING’ = too eager to talk.. NEVER lean in no matter how loud the environment is MAKE HER LEAN IN or just leave but NEVER lean in or “peck” as its also called.

9) FACING BODY/FEET TOWARDS HER BEFORE SHE EARNED IT = trying to gain rapport with her too eagerly.

10) CHASING WHEN SHE WALKS AWAY = hoping she’ll listen. If a chick moves away from you, move your bodylanguage MORE away from her, so she’ll be drawn back.. don’t CHASE her… WTF?!@?!?

11) NOT WITHDRAWING (backturns, etc) WHEN SHE DOES SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULDN’T TOLERATE FROM AN UGLY GIRL OR A GUY = trying too hard to pick her up

12) ANSWERING QUESTIONS TOO QUICKLY/EARLY = too much interest in the conversation

13) TURNING YOUR HEAD (OR “SNAPPING”) WHEN YOU’RE ADDRESSED = too eager to be in convo.. so if your head is facing the other direction, and a girl says something to you, turn it SLOWLY to her, don’t snap it out of eagerness to hear her

14) GOING BACK TO A PRIOR THREAD THAT WAS INTERUPTED AT THE FIRST CHANCE/BREAK-IN-CONVO THAT YOU GET = trying too hard to impress them.. (ie: when a thread gets broken off in the convo, and you go back to it FIRST chance you get when the other topic ends, you look like you were WAITING to get back to it.. WHY are you so eager to get back on it, unless you don’t feel comfortable around the person and you need to qualify yourself to them?) WAIT until THEY say “what was that you were saying before?”, and THEN go back to it.. if it doesn’t happen, *DROP IT* even if it was good.

15) NOT APPEARING MORE INTO YOUR WINGMAN THEN THE CHICK = trying too hard to pick her up.. you’ve known your wingman longer than her.. why do you pay more attention to her than your wing???

16) TOO EAGER TO PAY ATTENTION – SAYING “what?” IF YOU CAN’T HEAR HER, PRIOR TO BEING IN RAPPORT = too much interest in what she’s saying.. if she mumbles, just STACK OPENERS into an entirely DIFFERENT topic, RATHER than saying “what?” This is fucking KEY KEY KEY. If you say “what?” you’ll lose her unless you’re already past attraction and into rapport. If this happens, just run a new opener and change the topic. 1- you don’t look too eager, 2- you look alpha for being disinterested in what she’s talking about which helps anyway

17) REPLYING WITH OVERLY THOUGHT-OUT OF LOGICAL ANSWERS OR WITH OVERLY CLEAR/FORMAL PRONUNCIATION = being concerned that you won’t be accepted unless you convince really well (eg. HB: why did you ask me that… RIGHT = I’m talking. (sit and stare) WRONG = because I really need to know since I’ve been thinking about this for a while.. the FIRST one conveys that you won’t qualify yourself to her)

18) TAKING TOO MANY SENTENCES TO STATE AN IDEA THAT COULD BE STATED IN LESS SPACE = qualifying yourself. Commander Zap emails me a few months ago: “Remember TD, don’t write what you can say, don’t say what you can wink, don’t wink what you can smile” TIGHT. The shorter you can explain something in, the more PROFOUND you’ll appear. Why? You’re not qualifying yourself. (ironically I’m massively guilty of this, due to the fact that I post when I’m really tired – see #21 to spot what was wrong with this last sentence)

19) BEING BOLD INSTEAD OF CONFIDENT = that you know that you can’t pick her up, so you compensate with self-defeating actions so that the snub can be on “your terms”. Saying “I’m sexy right?” or “baby I want some of that” or even just approaching when the logistics are totally unrealistic is too eager, because a CONFIDENT person wouldn’t feel the NEED to say these kinds of things.. these things are symptoms of OVERCOMPENSATION for INSECURITIES.. which leads to……….

20) OVERCOMPENSATING INSECURITIES = fear of not being accepted. Have you ever met a janitor who the first thing he says is “money is over-rated.. I would never get caught up in the corporate world” blah blah.. if they’d have just said “I’m a janitor” and LEFT IT AT THAT we wouldn’t have even THOUGHT that anything was wrong with it.. but because they INSTANTLY start overcompensating, it comes off as overcompensating or qualifying. Same with if they BRING IT UP TOO EARLY. Like “hey, I’m Steve.. I’m a janitor and I love it”.. They’re TRYING to be cocky but it comes off as COMPENSATING. BE COMFORTABLE WITH YOURSELF. If you’re BALD, don’t say “would you love a bald man?” as a pickup line. It’s not COCKY…. its BOLD. If you’re bad looking, don’t say “don’t you think I’m sexy”. Just be comfortable with yourself, and don’t bring up the issue at all.

21) OVERCOMPENSATING FAILURE OR SHORTCOMINGS = fear of being judged.. if you do poorly on a presentation, or on a sarge in front of a wingman, or on a test, DO NOT SAY DUMB SHIT LIKE “I’m really tired”. EVEN IF you’re ACTUALLY really tired, the mere act of saying “I’m tired” comes off as QUALIFYING yourself to the person. Just don’t bring it up. If you have shitty clothes on, don’t say “I have nicer clothes at home.” Just don’t bring it up. If you meet a girl when you’re dressed bad, don’t say “I have the coolest club clothes at home” Just don’t bring it up.

22) GOING BACKWARDS IN THE PICKUP ON HER SCHEDULE = too eager to lay her.. if you’ve already GONE THROUGH the whole “let’s ballbust and shit test eachother” attraction phase of the pickup, and you’re now in RAPPORT -> if she tries to ballbust you at this point then just WITHDRAW ATTENTION. DO NOT BALLBUST BACK. It seems COUNTER INTUITIVE, but once you’ve gone through that whole little attract phase, and you’re now being nice to eachother in rapport, DO NOT let her rewind the sarge by answering her ballbusting with ballbusts of your own. Just withdraw attention, to show that you’re not interested in going BACKWARDS in a sarge.

23) WAITING FOR HER IF SHE LEAVES FOR ANY REASON (LIKE SAYS “I’M GOING TO THE WASHROOM, WAIT HERE) = too eager and into the convo.. if she goes to the washroom, make sure you’re into another set by the time she gets back.

24) OVERLY REMEMBERING DETAILS ABOUT PAST CONVOS = convo means too much to you, because the person has unusual value to you (ie: a hot chick). Of course, I’m not advocating to be a total dick, but the general rule of thumb is that if you wouldn’t have remembered a FAT CHICK or a GUY saying it, then don’t remember the HB9 chick saying it. If some random dude said it and you would have remembered, then FINE. If you were in an unusually intimate convo that’s also fine. But otherwise FAKE forgetting, even if she’s a model and you remember every word. Even forget her name. If you see a random chick from your class or work, but you never talked to her, OPEN LIKE YOU DON’T KNOW HER. Don’t give into the temptation to say “we work together”. Just open like a random chick, and maybe if you get snubbed then pull out that card to save face, but only as a LAST RESORT.

25) OFFERING TOO MUCH ABOUT YOURSELF TOO *EARLY* = too eager to make them like you.. subcategories of this are:

A) Verbally: if you say to a chick “yeah, I just got back from NYC (or any cool place that would impress)” or “yeah, I just got my Rolex fixed”, or “yeah, my stripper ex-girlfriend told me…” then she PICKS UP on the fact that you’re trying too hard to impress her.. Same with NAME DROPPING.. DON’T GIVE GIRLS YOUR RESUME TOO EARLY.. Personality conveying routines should convey personality COVERTLY, so it looks like the story is just SO COOL that its WORTH TELLING on its own accord, and it just HAPPENS to have some good things about you in it. When offering good things about yourself, don’t offer boring details. Say it with less detail, and it seems less eager. INSINUATE THAT WHICH YOU ARE TEMPTED TO ELICIDATE (holy shit, I just made up that last catchy sentence, but I’ve gotta say that I’m the shit.. right?)

B) Entertaining: If you have stuff like patterns, or the CUBE, or magic, or photos, or palmreading, and you do this EARLY, it comes off as TRY-HARD. Personally I don’t use any of these things, but alot of guys do, and when they bust them out prior to the chick EARNING it, it comes off TRY-HARD. Use the stuff LATER, but not right away.

*****C) Wanting rapport with someone who didn’t earn it: WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT??? I swear to god, almost *EVERY* PUA I meet live in field does this shit, and its SUPER LAME. Going up to a chick and saying “nice necklace” or “what’s your name” or “where did you get that?” is FUCKING DORK SUPER LAME. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE ABOUT THIS STUFF FROM A R-A-N-D-O-M PERSON????? The counter argument to this is that you’re not hiding your desires blah blah blah she’s a hot girl and she should be happy that you’re approaching, but this is INTERNET RHETORIC.. and this approach is STILL hiding your desires behind the GUISE that you’re nice, so even if the rhetoric was true, it would STILL be ineffective… In the INTERNET ARMCHAIR GAME this stuff is FINE, but in the REAL FIELD GAME this shit screws you over before you’ve even started gaming. It’s fucking bullshit, and NOBODY who isn’t very goodlooking or socially proofed (or whatever high value) PRIOR to going in, can make this kind of approach work consistently on HB8.5+ chicks. TRYING FOR RAPPORT TOO EARLY IS QUALIFYING YOURSELF TO HER BECAUSE SHE HAS NOT EARNED IT.

D) Talking without feedback: When you’re talking to someone, and they don’t give feedback, and you’re talking and talking, you BETA YOURSELF. It’s a DOWNWARD SPIRAL, where you start talking TOO MUCH, and you SENSE that you’re qualifying yourself, so you overcompensate EVEN MORE by TALKING and TALKING more and more.. Then you feel more and more beta’ed because you qualified yourself, and you’re left treading water, grabbing at ANYTHING that will impress the person, so you keep talking in hopes of saying that one thing that will impress them. AVOID this by not talking too much unless THEY give some feedback. IN THE FIELD you do this by PAUSING and FORCING them to fill in the awkward gaps.

Tyler Durden (Real Social Dynamics)